Why It's Obama's Time to Lead

To begin my stint as one of the Obama supporters on the front page, I'd like to thank Jerome for the opportunity to write here. In the tradition that has developed over the past week, I'll start my series by writing about who I am and how I've come to support Barack Obama for President.

In many ways, I fit what has become the stereotypical (though by no means accurate or all-encompassing) profile of an Obama supporter. While each of the MyDD bloggers for both the Edwards and Clinton campaigns are middle-aged, I'm still less than a month removed from celebrating my 21st birthday. I'm currently a student at Northwestern University, just outside of Chicago, further fulfilling the conventional characteristics of being a "well-educated" urbanite (well, as well-educated, in one manner of speaking, as someone my age could be, I like to think). Finally, and most importantly, I consider myself to be something of an activist, having served on the executive board of a progressive student community development group for the past 2 years, volunteered for the campaigns of netroots candidates Tim Walz (MN-01) and Dan Seals (IL-10) in 2006, and, this summer, interned for the Iowa arm of Senator Obama's Presidential Campaign.

It is from my experiences volunteering in low-income neighborhoods, studying theories of community development and social policy, and talking to hundreds of voters in small-town Minnesota and suburban Chicago that I have drawn the conclusion that Barack Obama is the best candidate to lead the Democratic Party and the country in the post-Bush years. Put simply, I find that:

1) Obama's life experiences demonstrate the greatest commitment to progressive causes and ideals of any candidate running, and from these experiences and his resulting vision he has demonstrated that he is not only the best advocate for our causes, but also has the best judgment to take them on in the Oval Office.

2) Obama is far and away the best spokesperson our Party has to offer in a time when a new era of extended Democratic and progressive dominance of government and popular political orthodoxy are within reach. An Obama Administration would be our best chance to facilitate such dominance.

Experience

It may seem strange to many of you that I would cite Obama's experience as a reason to support him in the primary, given that most of the attacks he has faced from his opponents have focused on his supposed "inexperience and naivety." Beyond throwing out platitudes about "experience that really matters," Obama's time spent as an organizer and civil rights lawyer has shaped his worldview in a way that has caused a deep understanding of the issues he will face in the White House. The experience also demonstrates a lifelong commitment to progressive advocacy absent in many of the other candidates. Since most of you have likely read or heard about Obama as a community organizer, I'll just quote a brief explanation of one of the many lessons he took away (this comes from a long article in the New Republic profiling his days as an organizer):

Obama was a fan of Alinsky's realistic streak. "The key to creating successful organizations was making sure people's self-interest was met," he told me, "and not just basing it on pie-in-the-sky idealism. So there were some basic principles that remained powerful then, and in fact I still believe in."

Chicago pastors still remember Obama making the rounds of local churches and conducting interviews--in organizing lingo, "one-on-ones"--where he would probe for self-interest. The Reverend Alvin Love, the Baptist minister of a modest brick church amid the clapboard bungalows of the South Side, was one of Obama's first one-on-ones. During a recent visit to his church, Love told me, "I remember he said this to me: There ought to be some way for us to help you meet your self-interest while at the same time meeting the real interests and the needs of the community.'"


Such an observation may seem obvious or unimportant in distinguishing a candidate (and perhaps some of the more perceptive Clinton supporters would be able to point out she herself wrote her senior thesis at Wellesley on Alinsky), but the organizer in Obama shows up in both his political philosophy and his policy proposals.

Logically, the policy that strikes the strongest chord with his days as an organizer is his plan to end urban poverty. Obama recognizes and addresses the myriad complexities of the issue in very practical terms. I first wrote about the plan in a diary the day after it was introduced. While I've been quite impressed with the persistence of John Edwards on this particular issue, I think that Obama's greater experience in this area becomes clear when the plans are compared. The Edwards plan focuses on removing the poor from inner city neighborhoods and dispersing them into "better" areas. This cuts off the social lifelines developed over the years in such communities, and also often leads to problems accessing services designed for the poor, as relevant organizations become much harder to reach. Such an approach has proven ineffective in the past:

...Edwards proposes doing away with public housing projects and replacing them with 1 million rental vouchers, to disperse the poor into better neighborhoods and suburbs, closer to good schools and jobs.

The idea sounds bold, but it faces a deflating reality: A major federal experiment conducted for more than a decade has found that dispersing poor families with vouchers does not improve earnings or school performance, leaving some economists puzzled that Edwards would make such dispersal a centerpiece of his anti-poverty program. Edwards said he was unaware of the experiment.


By contrast, Obama's plan largely focuses on developing neglected communities from within. In his speech introducing his plan, he once again highlights his knowledge of the intricacies of the issue by comparing a poor neighborhood as it is now with one that would be transformed by the services made available in his new program:
What's most overwhelming about urban poverty is that it's so difficult to escape - it's isolating and it's everywhere. If you are an African-American child unlucky enough to be born into one of these neighborhoods, you are most likely to start life hungry or malnourished. You are less likely to start with a father in your household, and if he is there, there's a fifty-fifty chance that he never finished high school and the same chance he doesn't have a job. Your school isn't likely to have the right books or the best teachers. You're more likely to encounter gang-activities than after-school activities. And if you can't find a job because the most successful businessman in your neighborhood is a drug dealer, you're more likely to join that gang yourself. Opportunity is scarce, role models are few, and there is little contact with the normalcy of life outside those streets.

What you learn when you spend your time in these neighborhoods trying to solve these problems is that there are no easy solutions and no perfect arguments. And you come to understand that for the last four decades, both ends of the political spectrum have been talking past one another.


If you're a child who's born in the Harlem Children's Zone, you start life differently than other inner-city children. Your parents probably went to what they call " Baby College", a place where they received counseling on how to care for newborns and what to expect in those first months. You start school right away, because there's early childhood education. When your parents are at work, you have a safe place to play and learn, because there's child care, and after school programs, even in the summer. There are innovative charter schools to attend. There's free medical services that offer care when you're sick and preventive services to stay healthy. There's affordable, good food available so you're not malnourished. There are job counselors and financial counselors. There's technology training and crime prevention.

You don't just sign up for this program, you're actively recruited for it, because the idea is that if everyone is involved, and no one slips through the cracks, then you really can change an entire community. Geoffrey Canada, the program's inspirational, innovative founder, put it best - instead of helping some kids beat the odds, the Harlem Children's Zone is actually changing the odds altogether.


Perhaps most importantly, Obama has deep ties to the issue. During his 2004 Senate campaign, while addressing the same organization he had worked with when first arriving in Chicago, he remarked:
"I grew up to be a man, right here, in this area. It's as a consequence of working with this organization and this community that I found my calling. There was something more than making money and getting a fancy degree. The measure of my life would be public service."

While I chose to focus on poverty to emphasize how I think Obama's experiences have prepared him for the Presidency, one could just as easily see how the lessons he took from his family and years spent abroad helped him to avoid making the same mistake so many of our other candidates made in authorizing/co-sponsoring the Iraq War:

In so many situations, Obama takes the time to think through a difficult question and deliver an honest (and typically impressive) answer, rather than delivering a pre-packaged talking point as Clinton and Edwards often do (though if I have to be fed talking points, I do like the rather bold ones that have emerged from the Edwards campaign in comparison to the poll-tested garble that often emerges from Clinton). Obama has shown an unparalleled (in the Presidential field) lifelong commitment to fighting on behalf of progressive causes, and has demonstrated an ability to draw on those life experiences in explaining and defining his policy. This ability is very much related to the second major reason why I support Obama: the ability to build off of his Administration a new national progressive consensus, including a dominant and "durable" Democratic Congress and electoral college for years to come.

A Dominant Progressive Majority

Since psericks largely covered this point in his post earlier today, I'll spend less time here. Without going into great detail, I will simply point out that Obama is quite popular among independents, and holds larger national leads in general election matchups over Republican opponents than Clinton or Edwards. But perhaps the most compelling case to be made for Obama comes from the enthusiasm with which his candidacy has been embraced by America's young voters. By one (albeit imperfect) indicator of youth "activism"--Facebook--Obama overwhelmingly leads all of his closest rivals...combined:

# of Facebook Supporters as of the time I'm Writing This:

Barack Obama: 129,896
Hillary Clinton: 36,044
Ron Paul: 19,466
John Edwards: 15,523
Mitt Romney: 15,282
Fred Thompson: 9,983
John McCain: 8,433
Dennis Kucinich: 7,457
*Rudy Giuliani apparently doesn't believe in Facebook

Obama's campaign has been quite effective in organizing on college campuses, folding into the campaign a group that had grown organically throughout the country earlier in the year. And if there is one group in the country that has overwhelmingly rejected Bush, it is young people. Young voters broke Democratic in the 2006 elections by a margin of 22 percentage points that would be absurd if it wasn't so...completely un-absurd, given who we were competing against. The internet generation is ours for the taking, and there is clearly no better candidate to turn this generation into the one that ushers in the next great era of progressive dominance than Barack Obama.

Think about it: the George W. Bush Administration will be the first lasting political memory in the collective consciousness of the millions of young adults of my generation.

What if the answer to the unprecedented corruption and lawlessness wrought on our country by the Bush Administration is the most sweeping and progressive government reform package offered in our history?

What if the reckless foreign policies of the neoconservative establishment and its enablers (including many figures running for the nomination of each Party today) were replaced by someone with the foresight to have opposed the Iraq War from the beginning because he thoroughly understood its disastrous implications?

What if the Republican ideology of "can't do, won't do, won't even try" was replaced by the progressive ideology of "I am my brother's keeper"?

What if we had a spokesperson who could explain our vision as eloquently as he did that summer evening in Boston every day for the next 4 years?

It's time to elect the one person who can make that happen.



Display:


on an unrelated note (3.00 / 1)

I saw Edwards speak today in Iowa, and walked away as impressed as ever. He did a great job delivering his stump speech, and his whole family was along, making for some endearing moments. He said little controversial or out of the ordinary, and left immediately after ending the speech, but the crowd was large (150+) and seemed for the most part very engaged while he was talking. Whoever our nominee is, we'll be in good hands.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:25:08 PM EST

drove by Obama HQ in Des Moines on Tuesday (3.00 / 2)

There's a big sign out front, right under the "Obama for America" sign, that says something like, "Not Paid For by PACs and Federal Lobbyists."

The Obama HQ has by far the best visibility of all the campaigns. It's on a major road in the hippest neighborhood in downtown Des Moines, right near the hippest block in that neighborhood. Tons of people drive or walk around there.

The Edwards and Clinton HQ are in the same office park about a half-mile from there, but there's practically no visibility. You have to drive on a minor road, turn into a nondescript parking lot, and go around to the back of the building to find the entrance. No campaign signs are visible from the street. I'm sure it's great value for money in terms of office space, but I am jealous of the Obama location!

I don't know exactly where the Richardson HQ is--either downtown in a different neighborhood or maybe just south of downtown. Biden HQ is in a suburban office building. Don't know where Dodd's office is.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: drove by Obama HQ in Des Moines on Tuesday (none / 0)

Is it by where the farmer's market is? Over by the capitol, I can't remember the neighborhood name.  Could you give street names please?  I now live in IC, but am from DSM.  IN case you are wondering I have only seen Obama's HQ in Iowa City, and it is in downtown, one block from the bars (pedmall) and one block from the campus. Haven't seen a sign like that, all the signs there now are hand painted.


http://ibrokemyrightwing.blogspot.com
by fakes seizures on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 09:23:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: drove by Obama HQ in Des Moines on Tuesday (none / 0)

the address is 323 E. Locust (Locust is the one just South of Grand). The office is basically located on the stretch in between the Capitol in the River, just South of 235


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:39:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: drove by Obama HQ in Des Moines on Tuesday (none / 0)

Every office in the state now has one of the "federal lobbyist" signs. And you're right, that is a great location for the Obama office in DM. I've only been there once myself, but it's right in the middle of everything


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

facebook (none / 0)

One Million Strong For Barack Obama has 300,000 members - I'm not sure what group you looked at


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:27:32 PM EST

Re: facebook (none / 0)

Candidates have profile pages where you can click "support this candidate"  that is what he is refering to.  

It is worth noting the 300,000 from the group, and he should probably put the myspace numbers up too, to give more information.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why It's Obama's Time to Lead (none / 0)

good work, Max


by iamready on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:28:31 PM EST

great job Max (2.00 / 1)

.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:28:44 PM EST

Nice post (3.00 / 2)

I repeat my refrain, why is Obama afraid to associate his progressive agenda with the Democratic Party?

You wrote:

What if the Republican ideology of "can't do, won't do, won't even try" was replaced by the progressive ideology of "I am my brother's keeper"?

What if we had a spokesperson who could explain our vision as eloquently as he did that summer evening in Boston every day for the next 4 years?

Why won't that spokesman embrace the Democratic Party and argue that the Democratic Party vision is the superior one, and that the Republican vision is extreme and ineffecitve?

In short, why won't Obama be a DEMOCRATIC spokesman for our vision and against the Republican vision?


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:29:04 PM EST

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

He is big.  Only he embraces everyone.  Everyone.  No one is left behind, as this adminstration has left everyone behind.  He is talking about thinking.  Making us think, whether we agree with him or not.  Yes, it is great to get "one-liner", but what is behind the line?  This race is too important, and we want change, we must vote for it.  The same ol' people, run everytime.  What is new about them?  I know everyone always talk about us vs. them.  Well, are we any better to keep following that line?  I know so many people who are Republicans and vastly embarrassed what they got in Bush.  And they should be.  But, the "what if" is a possiblity.  Why not?  


by iamready on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (3.00 / 1)

Excuse me, he needs to be for the Dems VISION, and fight for the election of all Dems, you know, the folks who will help him is he becomes President?

Is it REALLY that hard for him to argue FOR the Democratic Party?

I'll be honest, if he can't do that, then he should not be the Democratic nominee for President.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

Well, he is for our vision.  Isn't the democratic party supposed to be a "big tent", we take you and embrace you?  And I have been a democrat all my life.  Grew up with a working family, my parents worked "hard" to get us through school, solid democrats, but what is wrong with looking at change.  In 1992, Bill Clinton, lord, I could not wait to run to the polls for him.  My mother worked hard on his campaign.  He was exciting and brilliant.  He spoke to me.  I have not had that since Barack Obama.  I don't know, Katrina woke me up.  Seeing people begging for drops of water, food.  I never, ever want another person in that office that do not care about me.  How in God's name could any sitting president let our "family", "citizens" lay out in the street and just don't give a damn.  I want more, I demand more.  I want change.  I love the Democratic Party, but if I am forced to not think, feel, believe in a candidate because s/he is not talking a certain line?  It is time for me to become an independent.


by iamready on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:03:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (3.00 / 3)

Different point.

Honestly, why are Obama supporters ducking the issue. I have never questioned Obama's commitment to a progressive agenda.

I have been quite clear that my objection to Obama is his political style - his failure to embrace the Democratic Party, the Demnocratic brand, and his failure to stand up to the Republican Party and to criticize the Republican brand.

I think it is clear that Obama supporters do not care about that. I think it very much confirms that Obama is for yes, promoting his vision, but he is NOT about promoting the Democratic Party.

That is a serious shortcoming for me in a Dem Presidential candidate.

Others can have their views on this, but I do wish the point I make would be addressed.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:08:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

Whenever he is attacked, he always shoots back.  Sometimes his campaign shoots back so fast, you can't tell who shot first.  

I also recommend checking out his debates with Alan Keyes.  He never let Alan Keyes take the debate.  

The idea here is he has to win the primary, so he is focusing on that.  Whenever he has to, he responds to Republicans.  Until the primary is over, then he will push us forward.  

It wouldn't make a ton of sense to "embrace the Democratic party" when they are voting wrong on key things like the BS Iraq spending bill, and while he isn't considered the "Establishment candidate".  When the moment of truth is here, you will see.  Until then, it isn't necessary nor the right time.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:12:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

When HE is attacked (3.00 / 1)

he shoots back.

When the DemParty is attacked, lots of times it is he doing the attacking. It is never he doing the defending.

Your comment is a strike against him in my book.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:14:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

Sorry, but who is he attacking?


by iamready on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:17:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (3.00 / 1)

He attacked Dems for not being tolerant of people of faith.

He attacked Dems for being too partisan.

He seems to never attack the GOP.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:23:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

Not being tolerant of people of faith?  What?


by iamready on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:32:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (3.00 / 1)

His speech last year.

It caused a firestorm.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:41:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

read these MyDD posts (3.00 / 1)

from last year:

Chris Bowers, The Two Obamas and Me
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/12/4/2222 27/496

Chris Bowers, Obama Closes Daou's Triangle on Electoral Strategy:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/6/28/1327 18/681


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:54:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (3.00 / 1)

The question to ask though... is he wrong?... There are many Dems who are intolerant of people of faith... I have seen it MANY MANY MANY times on MyDD and Kos and it bothers and insults me everytime... many times they attack ALL Christians and not just the religious right who perverse the religion; its just as bad as the right wing wackos who attack all muslims and not just the ones the islamic fundies who pervert the religion.  You may not LIKE what he said, but that doesn't make it untrue... and I never walked away from that speech with the impression he was saying the entire party does it, instead elements of the party.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:57:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I replied to this a few posts downthread (3.00 / 2)

before I read your comment.

There is no excuse for Obama lending legitimacy to malicious right-wing stereotypes about Democrats.

You do not typically hear Republicans campaign against primary opponents saying, "Look, we can't just be the party carrying water for big business and the richest 1 percent of Americans."

They do not build themselves up by reinforcing a negative stereotype about other Republicans.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 01:11:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I replied to this a few posts downthread (none / 0)

Why is it that just because you disagree with his statement about tolerance of faith, you claim its a right wing stereotype?  Its not... There are many tolerant people in the Democratic party... many members of the religious left... there are others who attack ANYONE who is proud of their religion as right wing zealots... THAT'S a BULLSHIT attitude for those people to take and it is to that group  the speech is addressed.  Maybe the actions of claiming its propping up a RW stereotype do MUCH MUCH MUCH more in the actual propping of the stereotype than Obama's statement... The ones who object to it with your argument are far in the minority of the power and emotion of the speech... it is generally regarded as one of his best, right after the 2004 Keynote.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

We have a constitution which states that this nation was founded on the principles that there should be a separation between church and state.  This way we would all be tolerant of everyone else's faith or lack thereof.  Our founding fathers came from England where you had to attend one church or you were guilty of a crime against the nation state. A smart man like Obama should know that we have laws to cover this issue.  


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 03:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

Yes he is wrong! They have the right too believe whatever they want but the don't have the right to force their beliefs on the rest of us.


Beware of greedy leaders They'll take you where you should not go---George Harrison
by gar2458 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 07:53:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

Ah, but there is the fallacy in your argument... Obama is NOT calling for everyone to believe his faith... He isn't saying you need to believe in any religion... He's saying that regardless of your beliefs rather aethiest, Christian, Muslim, or whatever, we need to be accepting of all...  The comments that ALL CHRISTIANS want people to only follow there faith is just as intolerant as the wingnuts saying Aethiests will burn in hell.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

If he worships Republicans so much he should run as a Republican.  The media gives no respect to the Democrats and Obama wants the media to like him so he copies them


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 02:47:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

That is such an ignorant statement showing you completely do not get or understand the points being made... Utter ignorance


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:12:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

That is such an ignorant statement showing you completely do not get or understand the points being made... Utter ignorance


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (3.00 / 1)

He doesn't seem to attack Republicans for being intolerant.  No one asked Obama to run as a Democrat.  If Obama becomes the candidate for the Democratic party he will have to embrace our party's platform.  It occurs to me that perhaps Sen. Obama wants to run as an Independent like his pal Joe Lieberman did.  This would split the Democratic Party and would give the Presidency to a Republican. A real Democrat wouldn't want to do that.  Perhaps this is why he trashes the Democratic Party but is so in awe of the Republican Party.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 03:21:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

I too think he is planning an independent run. A Cult of Personality Ego campaign.


by DoIT on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:50:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

Keith Obermann found it interesting on his program yesterday that Obama used the p, hrase he was a uniter and not a divider when speaking of Hillary and Rove used the same phrase when speaking to Rush Limbaugh yesterday. Rove said he would be working with a presidential candidate but would not say which one.  I wonder if its Obama and if his job is to split the Democrats in order to put another Republican in.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 03:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

Are you really that fuckign stupid?  Seriously, I've read some stupid posts on MyDD in the 3 plus years I 've been here, but this ranks as one of the worst ones ever.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (3.00 / 1)

At least I can spell the F word.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 11:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When HE is attacked (none / 0)

A lot of Dems are not tolerant of people of faith


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 07:55:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

Oh yeah, he's the man. Dan Quayle could have beaten Alan Keyes in a debate. Probably even in a spelling contest. The dude is a rabid right wing imported nutjob. No real competition at all. Seriously your hero worship is kind of frightening.


by DoIT on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:48:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

Your ignorance and stupidity are just as frightening... Go back to Free Republic with the rest of the freepers and stop attacking good Democrats like Obama.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

I am not ducking the issue.  Can't I just look at your question different?  What do you want me to say?  It is like going to the opera, play, movie, every single perception will be different.  That is why the Democratic Party is one that accept that.


by iamready on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:16:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

How can he not be for Democrats, when he is in the party?  


by iamready on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:19:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (3.00 / 1)

Great question. Explain why he is not embracing the Dem brand?

Harold Ford is a Dem too.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:24:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

he reinforces right-wing frames sometimes (3.00 / 1)

I've said this before, and I'll say it again now to explain what we are talking about.

When Obama says that all too often Democrats are intolerant of expressions of faith in public, he plays into a false and malicious right-wing stereotype about Democrats.

When Big Tent Democrat or Chris Bowers or others bring this up, Obama supporters often say, well, some Democrats are intolerant, or well, Obama is trying to build a new coalition.

I'm Jewish. How do you think people would like it if I got on tv and said, "All too often we Jews are greedy and cheat other people. We need to remember to be honest in our business dealings, whether our customers are Jews or gentiles."

Obviously, this reinforces a hateful stereotype about Jews. The fact that somewhere out there a few greedy, dishonest Jews exist does not justify the use of this kind of rhetoric.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:58:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he reinforces right-wing frames sometimes (none / 0)

Tolerant is the key word here. When you are a Democrat you are tolerant of people's differences.  This country was founded on the Separation of Church and State.  The reason for this is so that every person could worship freely in their own way.  If they choose not to worship at all then that is there prerogative.  We don't need anyone to find a new way. Obama is running in the primaries as a Democrat. This is neither the time or the place to trash Democratic Ideals or the Constitution.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 02:53:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he reinforces right-wing frames sometimes (none / 0)

I hear the comparison, but here's the thing: while people don't choose their race or ethnicity, we all choose to be Democrats.  I don't think the same sensitivities need apply.

Obama's challenging Democrats to be better Democrats.  He's showing us he doesn't need to suck up to us, and I think he also has a genuine distaste for militantly secular Dems.  

I don't want a candidate who's content to pat me on the head because I happen to be in his/her party.  We should ask for more from our candidates.  


by Cloudspitter on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 06:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: he reinforces right-wing frames sometimes (none / 0)

I know a lot of Democrats who are intolerant of people of faith... not just wingnuts, but anyone who is proud of their religion.  Even if these people have never told them, "Your going to hell" or "You should believe what I believe", they still attack them.  I have seen people on here go as far to call all christians hatemongers or uneducated idiots.  I once heard a fellow dem call someone an idiot for saying God Bless you after they sneezed.  Obama NEVER said the entire party was like that and that's the gross inaccuracy Big Tent Dem and Bowers have often portrayed...although, I don't think they do it trying to be dishonest, they are just incorrect.  That speech as a whole was made to say that those who aren't accepting of others views on religion need to be tolerant of them.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:23:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

I hear you.  Its trendy in the media to trash Democratic ideals and the Democratic Party in general.  It is sad to see a Democrat trashing what most of us believe to be great about our party and our country.  


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 02:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

I have been quite clear that my objection to Obama is his political style - his failure to embrace the Democratic Party, the Democratic brand, and his failure to stand up to the Republican Party and to criticize the Republican brand.

I think it is clear that Obama supporters do not care about that. I think it very much confirms that Obama is for yes, promoting his vision, but he is NOT about promoting the Democratic Party.

note:minor spelling adjustment

That is my main problem with him too. Well, that and the fact that he can't stop saying stupid things.


by DoIT on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:44:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

As I suspected. Just another brainwashed Obama Cult of Personality Camp Explainer. At least you are being honest with your hero worship.

So you are threatening to leave the party. Well isn't that special. I am sure that will help your credibility here and elsewhere. Good riddance!  


by DoIT on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:40:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

As long as idiots worshiping at the cult of she-who-must-not-be-named, whose main leap into national prominence and whose biggest qualification was the fact she was fucking the president, then the party will be safe. If those people lead the party once again, then heaven help us all.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

As long as idiots worshiping at the cult of she-who-must-not-be-named, whose main leap into national prominence and whose biggest qualification was the fact she was fucking the president, then the party will be safe. If those people lead the party once again, then heaven help us all.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:28:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (3.00 / 1)

Just because he isn't shouting , "GO Dems No Matter What !" doesn't mean he's not proud of being a Democrat. He's running for President , not DNC Chairman.

In case you haven't noticed, the Democratic Establishment has destroyed this party. Why do you think there are so many people leaving and becoming Independents? Hello?

It's not about just switching parties. It's about Change. It's a little hard to run around touting the praises of the Democratic Party when those who control our Democratic Party are rejecting the Change that Obama is trying to bring.

Who was in power when we voted to go into Iraq?

Who?

Who is in power now?

Who?

Washington Establishment Democrats who are opposed to the Progressive movement and to Obamas Fresh new Ideas of Change. The question isn't why isn't Obama embracing the Democratic Party. The question is why isn't the Democratic Party Establishment growing a pair and embracing Barack Obamas message of Change , Hope and Unity ?

You know, like John F. Kennedy did. Instead, it is THEY who bend over for the Republicans. It is THEY who put the shackles on themselves , grab a basket , run out into the field and work for the Republicans.

Not Barack Obama.

If you read my argument and take it in context and not cherry pick it, you will see that I am correct.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:43:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's running for (3.00 / 3)

the Democratic nomination for President. He needs to be for the Democratic Party. He would be biger than any DNC Chairman.

Does he believe that his vision is not compatible with the Democratic Party's?

I find your comment not only unconvincing but an extreme turnoff on Obama. I think and hope you do not speak for his views.

Howard Dean ran against the Dem Establishment. but he ran FOR Democrats and the Democratic vision.

You remember, the whole Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party thing?

Obama is not running for a disenfranchised part of the Dem Party, he is not arguing for the Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party.

He is running from the Democratic Party.

Not only is it a bad strategy for the Party, it is a bad strategy for his candidacy.

Let me be clear. Unlike many, I do not object to his attacks on Hillary, that is what politics is.

I strongly object to his failure to stand up for the Democratic Party and to expressly stand against the Republican Party.

I also find it ironic that he is intent as being viewed as a unifier while dividing the Dempcratic Party. It smaks of hypocrisyu.

It is also dumb politics. Anyone can see he has no qualms attacking Hillary. How about a few broadsides at the Republican too?


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

It's interesting to contrast Obama with Bill Clinton, who takes endless amounts of grief for being a centrist triangulator, yet is proud to be a Democrat and to distinguish our party's vision from that of the Republicans, 7 days a week.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:02:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (3.00 / 1)

Clinton is clearly to the Right of Obama on issues, Bill I mean.

Clinton is clearly the better Democrat.

I thin my point is clear and I do think the responses we hear from Obama supporters on the matter are wholly unsatisfactory.

IF they do not care about the issue, that is their right. But I do not care for the ducking of the issue one gets in response.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

FDR and Harry Truman (none / 0)

never forgot about the Democratic brand. Obama could do to learn from them.


by andgarden on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:08:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Or the GOP brand (3.00 / 1)

They knew about negative branding.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:09:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

I couldn't agree more.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:17:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

Obama's ideas come from an expensive education at Harvard, where he met and cultivated rich Republicans.  This is his life's experience.  He has not been in the military.  He is well traveled and considers himself an intellectual.  He is no more in touch with ordinary people than is George Bush.  The rich friends Obama made in College denegrated Democrats all the time.  Imagine a party that wants to take care of the poor and the old.  They laugh at our party for believing that government has a responsibility to take care of its people.  


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 03:37:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

Obama made it clear that he isn't a real progressive, that deep down he is really conservative.


by DoIT on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:57:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

That is what I am afraid of.  Obama is a conservative and I think he is setting himself up to run as an Independent to split the Democrats and put another Republican in.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 02:59:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

you're both ridiculous. His Senate voting record is more liberal than Clinton's or Edwards'.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:14:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

Perhaps you can tell me what bills Obama sponsored.  


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 11:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

You can find them yourself on his Senate website or on his campaign website.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 11:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

The reason I asked you is because I read that he has not brought up any bills since he has been in the Senate.  I guess it must be true.


by changehorses08 on Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 01:16:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

It is absolutely false, he has actually been quite active for a freshman.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 04:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

The reason I asked you is because I read that he has not authored any bills since he has been in the Senate.  I guess it must be true.


by changehorses08 on Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 01:17:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

Perhaps you can tell me what bills Obama sponsored.  


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 11:27:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

That's beyond the pale.  Do you even bother to read the articles before you add comments to them?

Obama grew up biracial and middle class, was born outside the white political establishment, and traded a comfortable consultant job for a post as an organizer of churches and unions in inner-city Chicago.  

Obama has the hardest background of any of the candidates, except Kucinich... that dude had to live in a car.


by Cloudspitter on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 06:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

"He is running from the Democratic Party"

Actually, he is running for the Democratic nomination.  That involves drawing contrasts with other candidates.  His message is one of change.  If the extent of that change was simply trading parties, yelling 'rah rah any democrat will do', he wouldnt have any reason to run.

"I also find it ironic that he is intent as being viewed as a unifier while dividing the Dempcratic Party"

He is running for the party's nomination.  That means he has to draw distinctions.  Sorry, its not a hillary coronation.  As far as dividing the party, read any of the 'inside baseball' stories about the campaigns and you'll see that Hillary Inc is trying to strong arm the entire party (consultants, fundraisers, elected officials, etc) into supporting her or staying on the sidelines, promising punishment to those that didn't bow down to her if she wins.

"expressly stand against the Republican Party."

Sorry, when you run for President, you present your vision for governing.  You talk about what you want to do to make the country better.  Just whining about the other guy isnt enough.

"It is also dumb politics. Anyone can see he has no qualms attacking Hillary. How about a few broadsides at the Republican too?"

All of his "attacks" on hillary have been him responding to actual attacks from Hillary Inc.  Every time she tries to spin one of his common sense answers on foreign policy into "inexperience and naivety", he slaps he back.  Now you are crying about "attacks".  How ridiculous.  And as far as attacking the Republicans, he has responded to their attacks each time as well.


by WellstoneDem on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:45:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nonsequitor (none / 0)

It is as if you pieced together quotes of my comment in order to avoid my central point.

I won't respond to this in substance. You sure didn't respond to me in substance.

Indeed, you whole defense of Obama attacking Hillary is disingenuous as I say expressly I have no problem with it.

Ironic it remains.


by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nonsequitor (none / 0)

Please tell me what your magical central point is because you're "argument" looks more like a list of ridiculous statements that don't line up too well with reality.


by WellstoneDem on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 01:05:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

You forget this is not the general election and Obama is not the candidate.  He is running in Democratic Primaries, this is not the time or the place to trash Democrats.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 03:39:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's running for (none / 0)

Excellent points but these Obama Followers are like brainwashed lemmings and only support all things Obama. He never does or says anything wrong. If they had their way they would rename the Democratic party the Obamacratic party just to pay homage to their hero.


by DoIT on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:55:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

On the contrary.  In 2004 35% of Americans identified themselves as Democrats. In 2007 52% now consider themselves Democrats.  Why would you run as a Democrat but worship Republicans. Could it be that maybe your big money donors are Republicans and you have to please them?


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 02:59:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

Big Tent -- I totally agree.  Our party is the party of big ideas.  Without the Democrats there would never have been a middle class.  There would never have been Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, Workmen's Compensation.  We believe that government exists to help people.  I am proud to be a Democrat and I cannot understand why anyone would run for the nomination as a Democrat but not embrace the Democratic Party.  I have heard Obama speak about the Reagan Revolution of which he is very proud.  What Reagan did was start us on this downhill slide.  His mission was to get rid of unions and bring in cheap labor.  Trickle down economics would benefit us all. Only Bill Clinton the man who has never supposed to be president stopped the downhill slide and Obama today trashed that administration as dividing the country. I would also like to ask why Obama doesn't embrace the Democratic Party.  If it was good enough for FDR, JFK, and Clinton why isn't it good enough for Obama. Maybe Obama is running for Pundit on Fox News.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 02:27:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (3.00 / 2)

I think this is legitimate criticism. I actually have more worries about Edwards or (especially) Clinton abandoning a progressive agenda should things go sour in the 2010 midterms for some reason (as they did in 1994), but I can see your concerns about the lack of partisanship coming from Obama.

I don't really have an answer that you're going to like. To be honest, I'd like to see him get more partisan too. However, I don't think it's something that he is being coached into by Axelrod and Plouffe. For one thing, I don't think Obama is one to be coached, especially if his blunt honesty on foreign policy as of late is any indication. Hillary is clearly obsessed with staying on the newest set talking points developed by Wolfson and Penn, and Trippi has completely repackaged Edwards from 2004 (neither of these points are necessarily meant to be taken as digs at either candidate. I admire Clinton's discipline and like this Edwards campaign a lot better than the one I caucused for in Minnesota in 2004). However, Obama seems to instinctively avoid demonization of his opponents. I believe this stems from his days as an organizer, when such behavior would have undermined his objective of building coalitions to improve the neighborhoods where he worked. Check out this passage from the same New Republic article I linked to above:

Publicly, as well, Obama has made his organizing days central to his political identity. When he announced his candidacy for president last month, he said the "best education" he ever had was not his undergraduate years at Occidental and Columbia or even his time at Harvard Law School, but rather the four years he spent in the mid-'80s learning the science of community organizing in Chicago. The night after Obama's announcement speech, he made a similar point on "60 Minutes" as he led Steve Kroft around the old neighborhood.

Obama's self-conception as an organizer isn't just a campaign gimmick. Organizing remained central to Obama long after his stint on the South Side. In the 13 years between Obama's return to Chicago from law school and his Senate campaign, he was deeply involved with the city's constellation of community-organizing groups. He wrote about the subject. He attended organizing seminars. He served on the boards of foundations that support community organizing. He taught Alinsky's concepts and methods in workshops. When he first ran for office in 1996, he pledged to bring the spirit of community organizing to his job in the state Senate. And, after he was elected to the U.S. Senate, his wife, Michelle, told a reporter, "Barack is not a politician first and foremost. He's a community activist exploring the viability of politics to make change." Recalling her remark in 2005, Obama wrote, "I take that observation as a compliment."


I can't get to it now, because I only have a hard copy and most of the online part is blocked, but there's also a part in that article where Obama feels bad for ambushing a landlord for maintaining a deplorable safety record. His genuine instinct seems to be to reach out.

That being said, and while I agree that he needs to associate the Party with his vision, I'll offer a couple of other observations:

1) no other Presidential candidate ever uses the word Democrat in his or her commercials. Not Edwards, not Clinton, not Richardson. Not many incorporate it as a major part of the typical stump speech. It seems a couple of the candidates are better at making the occasional statement with the kind of language you are looking for, but it is not even close to being a prominent theme in any of the other campaigns. I think you often unfairly single out Obama on this issue.

2) the reason I think you single him out is that he has made some unfortunate statements about the deficiencies of the Democratic Party, be they real or imagined by the traditional media (like the one you cited about religion and politics, which I feel has strains of both the former and the latter). This does violate the reciprocal of the Reagan commandment (thou shalt not attack another Democrat), but I don't think Obama is using this type of language just for his own personal gain. As I think he truly believes in the value of coalition-building, I think he truly believes the Democratic Party shares the blame when he makes statements like that. To add to that thought, he makes the kind of statements you attack him for a lot less often than you seem to imply


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 04:05:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (none / 0)

As an Obama supporter, here is my take on his non-partisian rhetoric:

Obama wrote in the Audacity of Hope that it will require much more than a 51% majority to achieve major reforms such a Universal Health Care.  

To that end he is reaching out to independents and disaffected Republicans in order create a large progressive coalition.  Harping on the word "Democratic" may serve as an impediment to getting these potential converts to listen to the serman.

Recnet polls show that his strategy to appeal to non-Democratic voters is having some sucess.  Whether or not Obama can bring in enough new voters into the Democratic primaries to offset Hillary's lead among most traditional Democratic Party voting blocks remains to be seen.

Since Obama can only win in '08 by attracting significant numbers of new folks to the Democratic primaries a sucessful Obama candidacy will be extremely good for the incresing the size of the Democratic Party and tht, I hope we agree, would be a good thing.

 


by Sam I Am on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 08:57:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice post (3.00 / 1)

This argument is silly. Obama is running as the outsider. This is how it's done. You don't run as the outsider and say "Democrats are doing a great job!" He does promote progressive ideals, but to equate progressive ideals with Democratic ideals is to deny the fact that a major portion of our party does not embrace progressive policies. How can he promote clean elections as a Democratic value when so many Democrats embrace the current system of legal bribery? How can he claim that concern for the impoverished is a Democratic ideal when so many Democrats show so little concern for those in poverty? Can a commitment to the protection of civil liberties really be considered a Democratic value? Even among Democratic activists, I've heard far too many suggest that party unity is more important than protecting our civil liberties. Is that some kind of sick joke?

By promoting progressive values Obama begins the process of reintroducing the Democratic party, as well as middle America, to the merit of truly progressive ideals.
by anevarez on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 11:05:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

refresh, repost for (none / 0)

your embed to pop up, the video


by iamready on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:30:14 PM EST

Re: refresh, repost for (none / 0)

yeah, i tried that, but it didn't work. someone seems to have fixed it for me. i've always had hit-or-miss luck with posting videos in diaries


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's his plan to restore Constitutional govt? (3.00 / 1)

Or is that issue not even on his radar?

Note what Elizabeth Edwards had to say:

http://www.correntewire.com/elizabeth_un der_john_the_constitution_returns

Where's Obama on this? (Hillary being a lost cause.)


by lambert on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:30:51 PM EST

Re: What's his plan to restore Constitutional govt (none / 0)

Elizabeth Edwards is the reason John Edwards will never be president of the United States

(among other reasons)

Its the secret that everyone knows deep down.


by world dictator on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:36:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's his plan to restore Constitutional govt (none / 0)

Nasty nasty nasty!! Wash your mouth out.


by mrobinsong on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

your comment reminds me (3.00 / 1)

of early 1992 when Republican strategists were trying to define Bill Clinton as a guy who "can't control his waistline and can't control his wife."

Nice.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:56:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Constitutional govt (3.00 / 1)

Your comments wither from a light gust of wind.  Because they are pathetic cheap shots being made on a blog.  I can understand you saying that on live MSM television, They love it.  They love the arguing and the controversy.  It is great for ratings.  

However, here, it is unnecessary and uncalled for.  For similar reasons (as noted above) Bill Clinton never should have been president by your standards.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:16:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Constitutional govt (none / 0)

Calling a post bad but not stating why is  empty rhetoric.

You act like the media is going around forcing Elizabeth Edwards to say these things.

But as to the logic behind your argument, if Hillary Clinton is such a polarizing figure and can't win, do you really think they want a more liberal version of her with a much bigger mouth who is much more prone to using it?


by world dictator on Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 08:31:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Constitutional govt? (none / 0)

Obama plans to close Guantanamo Bay and restore Habeus Corpus.  I haven't seen specific plans, but I know that is the general idea.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:14:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Constitutional govt? (none / 0)

But he also plans to leave troops on the ground in the Middle East.

He's an empire builder.

It devastates me to find out that only Kucinich and Gravel (plus Ron Paul - ha!) are the only Democrats that don't want to use our boys to run the world.

These days it is the only thing I care about.  


by alexia on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 12:49:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Constitutional govt? (none / 0)

Wow, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore... THat's a strawman argument.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 01:00:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Constitutional govt? (none / 0)

You mean realistic things like training Iraqi's and protecting the embassy?  

Sorry, those do not equal "empire building".  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 01:02:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Constitutional govt? (none / 0)

History would suggest that as long as you don't conquer and declare yourself emperor for a thousand years of another country five times the size of your orginal one you're not really all that serious about empire building.

leaving some troops for securing an embassy and training an army so we can leave as fast as possible would get him laughed out the empire builder's club


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 04:05:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Constitutional govt? (none / 0)

Richardson has stated he would remove all troops from Iraq.
by anevarez on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 11:10:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Constitutional govt? (3.00 / 1)

How come Obama doesn't bring a bill to the floor restoring Habeus Corpus?  Obama is full of talk but light on action.


by changehorses08 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 02:30:23 AM EST
[